Curiosity, connection and cooking

Bringing people together through cooking has always been an important part of Lennie (Helena) Ware’s (BSocSc Social Policy, 1973) life, but it unexpectedly became a passion she shared with the world through her chart-topping podcast. From University through a career in social work, to co-hosting Table Manners with her daughter Jessie Ware, Lennie shares her journey and what she thinks are the key ingredients for a successful podcast.

University memories

I wanted to become a social worker and so I decided on Birmingham to do my undergraduate degree in Social Policy. I had the best tutor, Robert Holman, who eventually moved up to Scotland and did a lot of excellent work with marginalised communities in Glasgow.

Alongside the course, the social side of things was extremely fun and formative. I was on an events committee which organised events during Rag Week -an annual fundraiser held around February where we’d take to the city and put on various stunts to raise money for different charities. I organised the Rag Queen competition and incredibly I managed to get Arthur Scargill who was the President of the National Union of Mineworkers at the time to come along and be on the judging panel along with his wife. We had Shakin’ Stevens as the band too. On the day I remember asking one of his people “is Shakin’ ready now?” and they told me: “he’s just greasing his legs to get into his drainpipes”. It was all such fun.

Being on the events committee really had its perks. We were based in Founders, which is now the Guild, and I was one of the first to hear that Paul McCartney was coming to do a gig when he was with Wings. It was such a memorable moment and it's interesting because we had Sir Paul on the podcast not so long ago and I mentioned it.

I made so many amazing friends and I kept in touch with many of them. That includes Alan who I am visiting campus with today. We met at a party early on and have been friends since. We often have reunions with a group of us. My very best friend to this day, Alex, studied Italian and we shared a flat. I think my strongest, closest friends really are from the University.

Student food – not all baked beans on a budget

With my Jewish upbringing food, family and connecting over a great meal have always been central and so I probably brought better cooking skills than most to university.

I shared accommodation with three other girls and we used to cook often. I'd been taught by my Mum that home cooking was important. If we didn’t fancy cooking, I remember that Selly Oak was full of great curry houses including the best Balti at the Chamon.

I did also like being close enough to my parents who were in Manchester and I think I partly chose Birmingham to study because it was easy to get between the two cities. I could get back home but also my parents could visit and my Mum would bring me home-cooked food. I remember the comfort of that fondly from my time as a student.

Early career

After graduating, I worked as a non-qualified social worker in Greenwich and then went on to do a postgrad qualification in social science. I carried on working in social services for a little while but found a real interest in child and family psychiatry – one of my placements had been at the Tavistock in London, a specialist mental health centre. I then worked as a children’s guardian ad litem [someone appointed to represent a child's interests in court], which was rewarding and flexible around caring for my own three children. I still work on one or two cases as an independent social worker alongside the podcast.

I suppose for both social work and for the podcast I’m skilled at talking to people, taking an interest in them. I think it has prepared me well for both.

The founding of Table Manners

The podcast just came out of the blue eight years ago.

As a family we’ve always valued sitting around the table at mealtimes. Jessie used to bring lots of friends over for Friday night dinners. I’d cook for them all, we’d enjoy a meal and end up dancing to Whitney Houston in the kitchen.

Jessie’s just as nosey as I am and being in the music industry she has a very good address book. People said to us, you should really do podcasts. I didn’t even know what a podcast was! So, we came up with a concept where I would cook and she would talk to people. That didn’t quite work out because I enjoyed a chatting to the guests she had on and it’s evolved so that now we both cook a bit and both chat a bit (or a lot!).

I didn't ever expect at the age of 66 to do podcasting, but it's been amazing, I’ve met so many interesting people, I’m so lucky.

Signature dish

If it's someone really important, I do chicken soup with matzah balls, that's my signature dish and I can do that without even looking at what I'm doing. We had food-critic Jay Rayner on and I made him that. He asked me some technical questions about clarifying the soup. I didn’t know what he meant, but he meant that the soup was quite clear. He was impressed, so I was obviously very pleased.

Stand out guests

Alan Carr is just hysterically funny. We’ve had him on once on his own and then recently he came back with Amanda Holden. Amanda totally took me by surprise. As a duo they were hilarious, we couldn’t breathe for laughing.

I do like it when a guest takes me by surprise and is not quite what I expect them to be. But everyone has a story, everyone has something interesting to tell. When we had Ed Miliband on, he was so different from how I imagined he would be having watched him on TV as leader of the opposition. I take great interest in politics so I do like having politicians on.

Then there are guests who are memorable because of what it takes to get the interview. We interviewed Cher in Paris and I schlepped my chicken soup on the Eurostar, through the x-ray machine at customs. The hotel we stayed in wouldn’t let us use the kitchens and Cher’s team kept saying, “she should be five minutes,” and we’d call down to the kitchen and say, “do the soup, heat it up”. And then she was another half hour… and another. In the end she was three hours late.

Some of the cooks we've had on have been really interesting. I made a pie on purpose for Paul Hollywood and of course it had a soggy bottom, so I got some good pointers. And Yotam Ottolenghi is a bit of a friend now.

The ingredients for a successful podcast

Well, I think food is a fantastic vehicle for driving conversation. We ask every guest about their childhood meals. Who sat around the table? Who did the cooking? What nostalgic taste would transport you right back there? There’s so much to talk about, so many stories which questions like that bring out. We also ask them what their last supper would be, great for sparking conversation!

I think the team rely on me for my one-liners and I get away with asking questions I probably shouldn’t. I once embarrassed Jessie by asking Tom Daly if his speedos have ever come off?

I think in the oversaturated market that podcasting now finds itself, you've got to be authentic. If you're not authentic, people sniff you out. Jessie and me, no one can copy that and it’s probably one of our unique selling points. Lots of our audience found us in lockdown. You know, people who were missing their own mums loved our relationship and we carried it on even over Zoom. That authenticity can’t be replicated.

For each episode we do research our guests, so that we get more incisive interviews, but there is a balance to strike. We don’t want to appear over-researched, because we never want to ambush anyone. Because that's not the message we give. People are coming to have a bite with us and relax. It's supposed to be like a dinner, you know? That's how you get those real conversations.

We interviewed Gary Oldman and he had this beautiful scarf on. To break the ice, I said “I love your scarf”. He explained that he had gifted it to John Hurt, whom he adored. Then after John Hurt had died, Gary was in a play and John Hurt's widow came along, wrapped it up for him and gifted it back to him. It was an emotional story brought to life through the podcast and it was a really magical moment, but it came from just one very innocent remark, no research could have provided that authenticity.

Advice for aspiring podcasters

I think you must have real enthusiasm about whatever it is your podcast is themed on. I was fascinated hearing earlier about a student here using the University’s new podcasting facilities to successfully launch a tennis podcast. He clearly loves it, and you've got to be enthusiastic about what you're doing. It's got to be real. You've got to mean it.

My own curiosity for people, genuine enthusiasm for hearing what they have to say and the social awareness that I have built throughout my career have also been important elements for success.